I can understand not wanting a bunch of ATV's making noise over near your house. I can understand being worried about safety. I can even understand environmental concerns. What I can't understand is how people who are anti-ATV out on Long Island near my home can sit there and refuse to consider the rider's side of it when confronted with cold, hard facts.
Fact - ATV sales outpaced that of street bikes. No matter how many times I tell anti-ATV people this, they refuse to acknowledge it and spout the same crap over and over about how giving a piece of county or state land up for a public ATV park would help out "only a couple thousand people."
Fact - It IS possible to have public riding areas without everybody getting the shit sued out of them. I point to public riding areas in other states like Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Massachusetts that are bringing in tourism dollars from riders all over the place. The anti-ATV people ignore this. I tell them these public riding areas continue to exist despite liability issues. They ignore me and continue to voice their opinion that liability makes it impossible to have a public riding area on Long Island.
Fact - More people are killed by bee stings in the average year than by ATV accidents. I love how the anti-ATV people constantly parrot some figure of over 4,700 people killed by ATVs. Turns out that even the decidedly anti-ATV lobbying group that cites this figure admits that it's a 20-year total.
Fact - The problem with illegal riding is not a recent phenomenon. It's at least 30 years old. Growing up in Wading River, even as a small child I remember hearing about dirt bike riders getting chased by the cops when riding on public land. The anti-ATVers conveniently forget that when they call for increased law enforcement. It's been at least 30 years and nothing's worked. Perhaps it's time for a change in the way we attack the problem.
I can understand people having strong feelings about the issue, but sometimes debating it is like talking to a brick wall. This is why the problem persists.
UPDATE: I've closed comments on this thread because the comment spammers have latched onto it and keep loading it up with ads for boner pills. I've opened another thread for comments here.
Posted by THespos at April 14, 2005 08:04 PM | TrackBackHi Tom. J. Scotto from the LIORV here. Found you blog post during a web search. I am part of the team that is working with the Task Force to obtain a legal place to ride on LI. We submit our final report in December and then the battle begins. We are still looking for " a few good men" to help in the fight. Any interest?
Joe
The Anti's are ridiculous the way they carry on about ATV's ! they need to stop and see the light and look at the injuries and deaths caused by automobiles (4 million across the nation) and the likes before starting on the porch of the ATV'ers, in the year 2004 alone there were 161,000 injuries from common ladders! there were over 205,00 injuries caused by bathtubs and showers and over a 2 year period there were only 113,000 injuries caused by ATV's seems I would consider this a safe recreation compared to 546,000 injuries on bicycles in one year and to think these do gooders put there children at risk everday and say we are nuts for letting our kids and us ride ATV's !!! my opinion I think they need to pull there heads from the stink hole long enough to smell some fresh air ! there minds are clogged !
Posted by: Ray Merriman at October 17, 2005 10:10 AMMore and more I see evidence that many of these anti-ATV folks can't be reasoned with. They're willing to distort facts and believe whatever they want to believe in order to get ATVs away from public lands. And the thing that sucks about this is that the ATV issue on Long Island is going to be decided in the court of public opinion. The truth of the matter is that too many people are unwilling to listen to our side of the issue.
So what's the attitude of the enthusiasts likely to be over the coming years? Think they're simply going to sell their quads and move on to another hobby? Hell, no. They're going to continue doing what they're doing, except it's going to breed more animosity and more problems because of increased population density and more NIMBYs moving into the area who didn't grow up riding the trails.
Until people are willing to listen, nothing is going to get done.
Posted by: Tom Hespos at October 17, 2005 02:27 PMI JUST GOT A NEW ATV, HOW COME I HAD TO PAY FOR A REGISTRATION ? $70.00, BEFORE I COULD TAKE IT HOME, IF THERE ARE NO PLACES TO RIDE IT. IF I HAD TO PAY THE COUNTY (SUFF),I CONSIDER THAT PAYMENT TO RIDE WERE I FELL!!!
I ALSO SAW A PARK COP, ON A ATV ON THE BEACH,I KNOW THAT HE WAS PERTROLLING, BUT WY CAN THEY DRIVE THERE IF WE CANT. WY CANT WE PASS A LAW THAT STATS THAT IF ANY PERSON GETS HURT ON A ATV IN L.I., THAT THEY CANT SEW THE TOWN....
I live on Long Island and I just got one thing to ask the anti A.T.VERS alot of these people talk about noise .I GOT NOISE FOR YOU.. leaf blowers weedwackers yuppy little kids ON GOPEDS BUT WE CAN'T CRY OVER THAT CAN WE .I have nothing against gopeds.I SEE responsible parents take there kids to open areas and not the open street.By the way I have a 2005 crf250 and it is a hell of a lot quieter than most yard tools or hobbies like gas model airplanes/cars . Buy the way there is a place in pilgrim state for model airplanes. I LIKE TO KNOW WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM .YOU GIVE RECREATION AREAS TO EVERY BODY else .BUT THE BIG BAD WORD A.T.V COMES TO LIGHT AND YOU CRY BABIES START. GIVE US A LISTEN FOR ONCE.AND OPEN YOUR MIND. THANK YOU
Posted by: terry at January 3, 2006 06:07 PMYES you guys are righht. they should even make it legeal to ride in state parks. me an mi brother go quading in a park on long island,new york whree atvs are not alloud. but we still ride there because mi brother is a new york state tropper, so if we get cought by a cope we will get in trouble but not get our quads taken away.
-Mike
Hi-
I just wanted to post my perspective on ATV's and personal property. I have 6 acres of land, 4 of which is easment. ATV vehicles are up and down my easment daily, but especially weekends, all day long. I post this land at least 6 times a year. These ATV'ers rip my signs down and tear them up. I have put up fencing, they have ripped it down. We put in a large stone wall, they have removed a section of it, and again are passing thru. Do you have any idea how much this SUCKS? The ATV'ers here are rude, many times had way too much to drink, and think because it is an easment, it is theirs for the taking. My yard is torn up, and when I try to stop them, they flip me off. ATV'ers in my opinion all have the same 14 year old mentality. They are sneaky and rude. I wonder if these people would mind if I took my 4 wheeler up and down their yard ALL DAY LONG - ALL WEEKEND LONG, if they would get sick of me????
DB - there's no excuse for that kind of behavior, but I'm not sure I understand your situation fully. What kind of easement are you talking about? Is it the only way to get to land they have permission to ride on? Can you post the land as private property if it's an easement?
Posted by: Tom Hespos at March 23, 2006 05:28 PM--I grew up riding my quad in the woods and other types of state owned land. Never around houses because it is rude and annoying for people to hear. I lived in hawaii for the last three years and i'm coming home this summer. I have started a network of underground riders and extreme sport enthusiests. We're working on buying 18 acres of property in riverhead. Its gonna be next to a farm owned by my uncle who is never around. In august i will have a full track set up. I have no problem letting strangers ride their. However like anything else there will be ground rules. And riding days will be Tuesday, Weds, Friday and Saturday. The others will be reserved for my friend s and i to shoot our video. I'm also trying to get a permit for a beach ride in Gilgo for one weekend in September. Contact me at h2orat11@aol.com or www.myspace.com/gizmosquad for details.
Posted by: Thomas J at April 8, 2006 07:52 PMThis is what most of the ATV enthusiasts I know are like: I got this response from one of your wonderful, upstanding, misunderstood, poor-poor-me-I-spent-a-lot-of-money-on-a-huge-noisy-destructive-toy.....and no one understands my dilemma!
Hi Paty, thanks for the heads up on the April 22nd Earth Day clean up. Unfortunately, that won't work for us. My friends and I have decided to celebrate Earth Day at the preserve with a full days ride!!
We're talking 20 to 30 Quads and dirt bikes ripping around the place, the last thing we need is a bunch of tree huggers getting in our way. Do you have any idea how hard it is to clean flesh and blook off of these things?
It goes on and on....but I won't bore you guys with such stuff. No, I just went and sent it to the DA's office, the State Senators' office, the Legistlature. We have the person's e-mail and full name. Enough is enough. ATV's are a plague on the this country.
I think, a good example of just how selfish, how boorish, how irresponsible you ATV guys are. I hope that helps your cause.
Patricia
Posted by: Patricia Burkhart at April 13, 2006 12:56 AMYeah, so the idiotic comments of one lone responder to your marketing is a great excuse to paint all ATV enthusiasts with the same brush. Excuse me while I roll my eyes.
Have you even looked into this to see whether or not someone is pulling your leg? I certainly don't ride with anyone who has a negative attitude like this.
Posted by: Tom Hespos at April 13, 2006 10:56 AMaround here in upstate ny we are fed up with atvs and the damage they do. so, us local landowners have come together and are blocking atv access to our lands. we are allowing mt bikers and hikers as well as hunters on our land. They too are fed up with atvs and are assisting us by volunteering on weekends. ahhh the peace and quiet is finally returning
Posted by: william at April 14, 2006 07:45 PMI feel how you guys feel too, me and my dad go out all the time quading at places that we can find, only to go out and get our balls busted by the cops every time we do it. Its like we have to pay the state money to regi them even though we dont have a place to ride...its really getting bad. The anti's act as if they were never kids and as if they never had a lil fun on some quads or dirt-bikes when they were teens...i mean come on let people have a little bit of fun for once and a while and let us enjoy or hobbies. It would be nice to have a place on LI where we can quad/dirt bike and not have to worry about the damn cops chassing us and impounding or quads...
Posted by: Sean at April 30, 2006 09:16 PMMyself and many of my buddies have been riding quads and dirtbikes in suff. county for the last 10 years. Not one of the twenty so people I ride with have ever tried to take legal action against any land owner who's property they've been hurt on. Is it right to blame all atv riders or maybe just the few who give us a bad name? I know that its not just the liability thing but all the land conservationists who have many debates as well but let me ask one question, is it wrong that when me and my buddies were out riding a couple months ago that the suffolk county "atv task force" were riding there atvs with there kids with them? You cant mistake a cop on a quad with there 4x4s with there SCPD license plates, but when they have children on atvs with them it makes you wonder. Is that legal because there supposed to be out chasing us away? Or maybe they want to ride too and there being cops is the only way to get a day of riding in with the family without being bothered. Ask most cops what they think about this "atv task force" and i bet they bring up stories about riding when they were younger in the same area they are busting in today. If anyone wonders why people get hurt on atvs and dirtbikes most of the time i could bet you its while running from a cop to avoid the rediculous impound and trespassing fees. Notice that theres articles in Newsday about how successful the raids there doing have been, but you dont see as much hype when a cops chases a kid on a dirtbike and he hits a fence and is thrown onto the highway and hit by a car. Does anyone know how much of your tax money is spent to pay for a NYS police helicopter to fly from upstate to long island for a days flight to help bust less than 20 people? I dont think you want to know. I guess that we dont need that money for anything else?
Posted by: Mike at May 12, 2006 10:22 AMyou are a fucking moron, take your atv and shove it up your ass
Posted by: jerk at May 15, 2006 07:49 PMIts because of jerk offs like you that we dont have any riding rights!
Posted by: mike at May 17, 2006 12:08 PMok ok ok.... enough is enough. Im putting together an extreme sports movement. Join me. Im coming back to NY from Hawaii in june. We'll all me up for a ride where the cops or annoying neighbors can't touch us. Email me at h2orat11@aol.com if your in. Tell All, the bigger the better.
Posted by: thomas j at May 30, 2006 10:40 PMWith all due respect, In comparison to ORV's, mountain bikes make little noise, have minimum impact on trails and wildlife, don't pollute, use less materials to make, are safer, and best yet--you can get some exercise. You can take a mountain bike anywhere you can take an ORV, and the experience is far more rewarding because you got it there using your own power. The human mind and body are powerful things. Use them for the greater good.
Posted by: L. Hawk Devan at July 14, 2006 12:51 AMnobody cares about your damn mountain bike.
Posted by: weston at September 14, 2006 03:58 PM
All comments are property of the individual poster who left them. Everything else, copyright 2005, Tom Hespos